How To Improve Your Memory & Focus Ft. Just Thrive Founder, Tina Anderson & Chief Microbiologist Kiran Krishnan | The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast EPISODE (#670)

She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.

Fantastic.

And he's a serial entrepreneur.

A very smart cookie.

And now, Lauryn Evarts and Michael Bosstick are bringing you along for the ride.

Get ready for some major realness.

Welcome to The Skinny Confidential Him & Her.

Imagine if cortisol and epinephrine or epinephrine are supposed to happen in two or three small waves throughout the day, but they're happening constantly throughout the day.

You're constantly in this activated state.

What happens is those glands actually get tired and they can't produce the same level of those hormones, which means you can't activate your systems, your bodies.

So then you go into adrenal fatigue, which then leads to chronic fatigue syndrome.

So what do you do there?

Well, you have to learn to manage stress.

This one example that just comes to mind, my son plays college basketball, and this season, Billy and I decided not to say a word to him, not to say like, you know, oh, why didn't you take that shot?

Or, oh, you could be playing better defense, or get a rebound, or you should box out better.

We just said nothing, just we loved watching you play, and he had the best season of his career.

Hello, everybody.

Welcome back to The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Show.

Today, we have a fabulous episode all around how to focus better, make your brain healthier, feel better.

This episode is definitely tailored around health and wellness, mostly around focus and why so many of us have such a hard time focusing and being productive these days.

We dive into it.

The duo joining this episode are joining us for their fourth appearance, Tina Anderson and Kiran Krishnan from Just Thrive.

We've had multiple conversations with this duo, and they're always fabulous.

We've dove into gut health, overall health, probiotics.

We've gotten into parenting.

There's been so many topics that we've covered with them.

And this episode, just like the others, packs a punch.

So if you're someone who wants to learn how to focus more, feel better, take care of your brain, learn about daily practices to manage your stress levels, manage your anxiety levels, then this episode is for you.

With that, let's jump into the episode.

This is The Skinny Confidential Him & Her.

I just want to start by saying, Tina, thank God you did not wear that outfit last night to dinner.

I was thinking the same thing.

Because, Lauryn, we went to dinner last night, and Lauryn bare-paw swiped a massive glass of red wine all over Tina.

And if you were wearing...

I don't know.

We'll both find that out later.

If you were wearing that last night, we would have had a little bit of a different scenario in our hands.

You know what's not good for focus and memory?

Wine.

We literally did the opposite last night.

This is true.

This is true.

But it was fun.

This episode is going to be all about focus and memory, how we're less focused than ever, and how we can improve our focus and memory.

I think to start off, let's just give a quick intro to the audience.

You guys have been on four times because the episodes have been so successful, but just like a little blurb about each of you before we get into it.

I'm Tina Anderson.

I'm the co-founder and CEO of Just Thrive.

My background was in litigation for many years and then I went into a family pharmaceutical business where we kind of got dismayed by a lot of the abuses in the pharmaceutical industry and we wanted to do something that was more in line with how we lived our lives with our three children.

And so we dove into the field of gut health and researched and we were able to license these very exclusive strains of probiotics, which I know your audience has already come to know.

And from there, Just Thrive was born and it's been the most gratifying career journey I've ever been on.

So I'm Kiran Krishnan.

I'm a research microbiologist.

I've spent most of my career doing research and development and innovation in the world of nutritional science.

So a lot of focus on the gut, of course, as a microbiologist, because we have all these microbes that dictate how we function.

And so my goal is to understand who they are, what they do, and how do we work with them in order to optimize our life.

I started working with Tina, I don't know, now about 10 years ago, at least, right?

And finding brands that are really focused on science and research is really my goal.

And then working with them to bring the science and research to it.

And then education.

I spend a lot of time talking.

And for those of you that are newer listeners or maybe missed the last episodes with these two, I'll link them in the show notes or we'll link them in the show notes and make sure, because they're phenomenal episodes, especially if you're interested in the topic of gut health and all sorts of stuff we've dove into.

They've been really successful episodes.

So we'll link them.

But anyways, guys, welcome back to the show.

I wanna discuss the underlying cause of why people are less focused than ever.

Like what is it coming from?

Because everyone says, I have ADD, I can't focus.

I can't multi, like why is that?

Well, I think what we're seeing is that these little devices called smartphones are inducing a sort of ADHD in society.

I mean, we are so distracted more than we ever have been in history before.

And when you think about just the device itself, it takes us to thousands of different places within a matter of minutes.

So we're constantly being distracted between, we get an email, we get a Slack message, notifications are on our text messages, we're getting text messages.

We're just distracted as a society from societal demands, home demands.

We're working from home.

That's another big one.

There's way more distractions at home.

I mean, I'm aging myself right now, but 30 years ago, I'd be in my office.

The only distraction I had was someone knocking on my office door.

Now we're working on a spreadsheet and you get a text notification, you use Slack comes through and we're distracted.

It's funny because my daughter and I yesterday were watching home videos of me when I was a little girl.

And I'm watching the way my mom was engaging with us as babies and she's so focused on doing that singular task.

And now it's like, even when we're with our kids at home, there's 6 million things to do and it's a different energy.

She didn't have a phone to pick up or someone to text or emails to respond to.

It's like she was like really like present and you almost can sense it.

Does that make sense?

Absolutely.

Yeah, and to answer that question from a science perspective, right?

So what is happening with our brain?

So Tina mentioned all these distractions.

The way we're wired and the way our brain is supposed to work, there are these neurotransmitters that elicit activity within us, especially activity that's good for us, right?

So dopamine, for example, dopamine is a substance that's largely made in the gut that functions in the brain and the big effect of dopamine is to give you focus, attention to something and make you feel elation when you reward yourself with the act that you do that's a benefit to you.

So for example, when we eat food, we get a dopamine rush, right?

And the reason for that is your body's trying to tell you, hey, this is a good thing, make sure you go out and eat food.

If you work on something and you're diligently building something, you get a dopamine rush and that's your body telling you this is good for you.

Now that's supposed to happen at a certain level throughout the day.

When we have this over stimulation, what's happening is we're creating so much dopamine release throughout our day in our brain that the levels that we need to feel something keep increasing.

So it's no different than like insulin resistance or leptin resistance in weight loss issues.

We can develop this dopamine resistant type of issue where we need more and more dopamine to feel the effects of it.

Now on top of that, we've got inflammation.

Inflammation is damaging the brain's ability to use dopamine.

A lot of that inflammation comes from the gut, comes from all the toxins and things that we experience and stress that we experience throughout the day.

So not only are we stimulating this dopamine as a stimulant all day long through all of these devices and all that, but on top of that, we can't utilize dopamine as well.

So between the two, we're constantly fighting to stoke the dopamine response, right?

And so when you look at things like Adderall or Vivance or Ritalin, they're all dopaminergic substances.

The way they work in the brain to try to increase focus is it releases more dopamine and releases norepinephrine, which is a stress hormone, which gets you to focus and pay attention on things, right?

So that's what's happening scientifically in the brain.

Adderall is being prescribed more than ever or the other versions that you just said.

If you had a kid that was prescribed to Adderall and you know everything you know, what are you going to do before you even entertain, if you entertain an Adderall prescription?

Yeah, and I wouldn't entertain it.

And the reason I wouldn't entertain it is because it becomes almost a lifelong crutch, right?

Because what the Adderall is doing is it's artificially stimulating the release of dopamine and epinephrine.

So it's giving an artificial outcome.

Now it does improve function, right?

Absolutely.

But do I want my child having that issue and having to use that crutch for the rest of their lives?

That is the risk that you're facing.

So my mind, I go, okay, what is wrong?

Number one, they're probably overstimulated to begin with, right?

So can we dampen some of the overstimulation?

Like there's too many devices, they're doing too many things, they're not having any downtime.

You're talking about when your mom was interacting with you, right?

Am I focused enough on them, right?

Am I giving them one-on-one focused time without any other distractions so that they can build that mechanism in their brain to focus and enhance on something?

Are they getting rewards from tasks appropriately if they sit down and draw something, right?

Are they getting elation or rewards from that so that their brain knows, if I focus on this task and I get it done, this is good, right?

There's a benefit to me there.

Then on top of that, I would go, what's going on with their gut?

Because they may not be producing enough dopamine.

A good amount of dopamine is actually producing the gut.

So they might have inflammation or leaky gut.

So they're not producing enough dopamine.

And then are they sleeping enough?

Are they protecting the brain enough so that the brain can actually utilize dopamine?

Because if you have inflammation, you have damage to the brain that occurs throughout the day, you can't utilize the dopamine you're making.

So those would be the few things I'd start looking at before considering the prescription.

Some cases, maybe you need to use it.

No judgment, right?

We need to do what we need to do to get by.

But that's how I would look at it.

You mentioned that our kids are watching us be distracted and us not focus.

Yep.

I think that's a big one because kids are always watching.

I call my daughter big eye.

Yes.

But they're always watching everything.

You think that's a huge part of, they're sort of like mirroring our behavior.

Yep.

So one of the most important things is parents.

We can say what we want.

We can lecture them all we want and all that.

It's the modeling that's the most important, right?

We know that.

And that's throughout the animal kingdom, every species, the parents model behavior for the child.

And the modeling creates the neurotransmitter networks or the networks in the brain to gear the child towards behavior.

And I noticed this myself, right?

Because it's hard for me to watch TV without looking on my phone, right?

And I noticed this, and I'm conscious of this from time to time, I'm gonna go, I'm watching something that is entertaining me and still I'm looking at my phone for stuff, right?

Which that's just so strange to me.

And my kids noticed that and they pointed out, right?

They go, dad, why you're not even watching, you're looking at your phone, right?

And I'm like, they noticed that.

And that modeling absolutely creates networks in their brain that show them that this is how you function, right?

And they do the same thing.

You know, I think one of the downsides too to this device, and I don't know if you guys feel the same, there is this like artificial sense of urgency in all things.

Yes.

And I think, you know, Lauryn and I didn't have smartphones until we got out of school.

And I just never, when I look back on my life, and maybe you can relate, as older people have the table, I never felt as much sense of urgency when I was younger.

Like something would come through, I wouldn't see it in my email until I got on a computer and looked at it.

I know that strange people are like, what do you mean?

Like most people get their email and out of their phone.

Like there was a time when you had to get on a computer to see if you got anything.

Or something happened, you know, going way back, and like you'd have to listen to a voicemail at home, or you'd have to like answer.

And so like you had all this time, and I feel like it's creating this big public sense of anxiety because everything feels so urgent.

When really it's not, it's just people are able to get to you much faster and able to see the message much quicker.

I do think though that the power lies in the person that's holding the phone, and you have to take extreme accountability around your phone and make boundaries.

And I think we can point and blame and say, and this is not my fault, but at the end of the day, you're the user.

So for me, I look at it like a sign on a shop that says closed for the night, like it's closed.

What I think though, people like, there's just many people that just aren't aware that they're exhibiting these behaviors.

And like we've all slowly been lulled into it.

You know what I mean?

Like these phones just get faster and faster and more capable, more capable.

Now we're wearing headsets on our face to run around.

Who knows?

That's only gonna get faster and faster and smaller and smaller.

And so I think it's a weird, you can't resist technology.

And it's part of the human existence.

We're gonna have to use these tools.

But I think it's very easy to slip into a pattern of behavior that you're unaware of where all of a sudden you're running around anxious, unfocused, feeling like everything in the world is an emergency that has to be answered right away.

You know, the gnarliest is when it comes in and it says like, urgent email.

And you're reading like, why is this so urgent?

Like, you know, urgent, we gotta get this paid.

I'm like, you know, the company will survive if you wait till Monday, like, you know, and if not, we got bigger problems.

You know, I just look at this stuff now, I'm like, not everything is really urgent.

And I think we throw that word around now way too freely.

Yeah, and I think what we're seeing too, is that because we're doing this, we have shorter attention spans.

I mean, we used to have an average attention span of like two and a half minutes.

Now it's less than 40 seconds.

And of course, that's just going down.

And that lack of attention span is the reason why we're spending all these crazy hours at work.

It's not because we're working more or more efficiently, we're just distracted throughout the days.

And now we're working 24 seven.

So to Lauryn's point, I mean, we definitely need to be working on disciplining ourselves more with our phone, but most people aren't.

Yeah, I think it all starts with awareness.

You just have to be aware, like catch yourself in the moment of what you're doing.

Like, do I really need to walk into the bathroom with my phone or is that excessive?

Can I put my phone down when I wake up?

Like it's like Ichabod Crane when people wake up.

It's like they roll over and like slam the phone in their face.

There's something though, we talked about this last night in relation to children and children feeling okay coming home and like maybe missing that party.

And I think it's ingrained in all of us to feel like I can't miss out on whatever's going on.

And we do the same thing on the phone.

Like I have to see what's going on throughout every hour of the day to make sure that I'm participating in society and that I don't miss anything.

Or maybe control.

No, I think it's a behavioral thing where humans don't want to feel left out or like they will miss something.

The older I get, the more I want to miss out.

Yeah, and the neurotransmitter component to that is dopamine.

So our phone gives us that dopamine kick, right?

And we're constantly seeking that.

And that's why it's addictive.

That's why scrolling is addictive because it gives you that little bit of dopamine kick.

And to me, that underlying issue as to why we want or need that dopamine kick, that's the part that scares me a little bit, right?

So when Tina, when we first talked about doing a memory and cognition product, the part that interested me about it was why is it that people need a memory and cognition product?

Why is it that people need neurological stimulants, right?

We all use stimulants, coffee, I was just drinking coffee earlier, and I like it because it is a stimulant, right?

Nicotine, and then of course, all the prescription versions of this.

Why do we need it?

And what does that say about what's happening to our brains?

That's the part that keeps me up a little bit at night because what you start to realize when you look at the biology of it is that we're all waking up every morning with a brain that's slightly more damaged than the brain we had the day before.

Oh, great.

Slightly damaged, right?

And this is why we see dementia, Alzheimer's, and all those rates increasing dramatically.

The early, early stages of that are memory, cognitive dysfunction, focus, and then anxiety and depression as well.

The pathologies of all those things are very, very similar.

Right?

So the part that really keeps me up at night is looking at data that shows 20 and 30-year-olds when they do cognitive dysfunctional tests, they have measured levels of reduced cognitive function.

Right?

When they're supposed to be at their peaks, right?

They can measure them the same way they measure it in 60-year-olds who are undergoing dementia.

The same kind of dysfunction is measurable in 20 and 30-year-olds, but we don't necessarily address it until we're in our 60s, right?

So what is the underlying root cause that we're starting to see that so much younger?

Yeah.

So the big thing is a couple of things.

One is inflammation and inflammatory damage.

Number two is the inability of the brain to repair itself at night, especially, right?

So we're not sleeping enough.

Sleep is really important to repair the brain.

Providing the right type of cellular activation.

So you've got these mechanisms in the brain that turn on things like glutathione.

Glutathione is a very powerful antioxidant.

It helps neutralize the free radicals and the oxidation that occurs in the brain throughout the day.

Stress is another driver of damage to the brain and inflammation.

And then of course, the overt distractions, right?

The overt distractions stoke too much dopamine, too much epinephrine, too much serotonin in some cases as well.

And all of those things are overstimulating to the brain without enough rest and recovery.

How much sleep should we be getting?

So it varies from person to person, but I would say that deep sleep, so I wear the aura ring, right?

So it's a great way for me to keep track of what I'm actually doing from a sleep perspective.

I think you need a minimum of around an hour and 10 minutes of deep sleep and around an hour and 30 minutes of REM sleep.

That's where most of the recovery is happening.

For me, I can get by fine with around six and a half to seven hours of sleep on a regular basis, and then I can go several days with four or five hours of sleep and still be functioning.

But that's unique to me because I think I function well with adrenaline.

My mom's like that, right?

So my mom is, she would say 72, but she's probably 74, 75.

And so she is a physician.

She runs an ICU and an ER night shift.

Oh wow, that's intense.

That's a lot of cortisol.

Yeah, that's a lot of cortisol, right?

She's the only attending on the floor in both the ICU, which is like a 30 bed ICU and an emergency department overnight.

So she does a 7 p.m.
to like 9 a.m.
shift.

Seven days a week.

Woof.

Right?

Wait, how is that possible?

Seven days a week?

Seven days a week and then she takes seven days off.

Seven days on, seven days off.

But she keeps shifting.

So one week, she's sleeping in the daytime.

The very next week, she's sleeping at night.

But she runs fine because she runs on adrenaline really well, even at her age, right?

And so that's kind of like me.

I do the same thing.

Like, Lauren, this morning, I was like, how the hell are you so awake in the morning?

He woke up this morning.

It was like, I was like, get back in the jack in the box.

Get away from, he's talking mid-sentence.

I'm like, I gotta get a coffee.

Maybe my ancestors must have been running for their life.

Yeah, exactly, all the time.

And at the end of the day, stress, right?

So if you don't mind, let's talk about stress for a moment.

I think everybody knows stress is bad for you, but if you put it in this context, it's really almost whimsical to think about it.

So the stress response, the fight-or-flight response has been a very, very important response for every type of living creature there has been since the dawn of time, right?

The same cortisol fight-or-flight response that we experience, some dinosaur is experiencing the same exact thing 100 million years ago as it's running away from a predator.

And that's the beauty of this biology.

It's been sustained through the course of evolution because it's so important for survival, right?

So you think about a wildebeest in the Serengeti, and the wildebeest is sitting there quite happily eating grass.

And then it hears a rustling or some steps and it notices a lion.

The fight-or-flight response kicks in in the wildebeest, blood pressure goes way up, inflammation goes way up, all non-essential functions shut down, the muscles are activated, and the wildebeest is literally running for its life, right?

And let's say it's a clumsy lion, so he falls over and it doesn't catch the wildebeest.

The moment the threat is done, the wildebeest goes back to eating grass, doesn't have any emotional trauma from it, right?

Doesn't even think about it, and it's just moving on with his or her life, right?

If that happened to a human, we'd have hypertension for the next two months from it, we'd be going to a therapist, we'd be thinking about it, we'd be not sleeping at night and all that from that one incident.

Well, why is that, right?

We have the curse of having higher cognition, right?

That's put us at the top of the evolutionary ladder because we have consciousness, right?

That other animals don't, but the other side of the coin of consciousness is we have anticipatory stress, psychological stress.

So we're thinking about the next time that's gonna happen.

Exactly, and what it means and what is it, did I do something wrong, should I not have been there?

Was I wearing something off?

Like all these things we think about, right?

The anticipatory stress.

The stress that that wildebeest feels when he or she's running for their life is the same stress biologically that we feel when we're sitting in traffic.

Or when you spill a glass of red wine on someone's tattooed scarf.

Exactly at dinner, right?

And so the crazy thing about it is that biological mechanism is designed to work for a few seconds to a few minutes.

We're the only species there is, with the exception of maybe one other, that induces that throughout the day all the time.

And our systems aren't designed to handle that.

So stress damages your brain.

So let me, in that line of reasoning, would it be fair to say that if we are in that mindset or in that fight or flight for long periods of time, it is also shutting down critical functions of the body for long periods of time where they maybe should not be shut down?

That's exactly right.

So the easy way to illustrate that is they call the fight or flight response the sympathetic activation, right?

And they call it fight or flight.

The opposite effect is rest and digest.

It's really rest, digest and repair.

So you've got these different neurological mechanisms fighting against each other throughout the day.

If you're in fight or flight, you're not resting, digesting or repairing, right?

You can't sleep, you can't regenerate the body, you can't assimilate nutrients, you can't digest food.

So you can't do all the important things.

You're constantly in this survival mode.

How come certain people run more stress than other people?

I feel a lot less stressed than I feel like Michael feels.

And I don't know if I'm dissociating and it's bad.

Maybe it's bad.

I'm not saying I'm the winner here.

I'm saying I might be...

You're looking to get some points.

Dissociating or detaching is a good word from it, but he runs way more stressed.

What's interesting is we had our brain scan by Dr.

Amen.

I don't know if you know him.

And he was showing that that's kind of the right...

What she just articulated is true.

For whatever reason, I tend to run more stress and hyper, but at the same time...

He was surprised because typically the woman is the one to run more stress.

But interestingly enough, I also feel like I have way more energy, no offense.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, so then if you think about, right, all the things associated with stress, it's the release of cortisol, epinephrine, norepinephrine.

Those are things that stimulate the system.

Your muscles are getting more blood than hers are.

Your adrenals are kicking off, right?

Your cells are making more energy.

This is why you can wake up in the morning and be more alert, and she takes some time to start catching up.

But the same thing is happening also in the brain, right?

So when the brain is undergoing stress and you're awakened, that means your brain is inflamed, right?

The way the body gets blood to the brain when it's going through this fight to fight response is using inflammation.

It actually uses your immune system.

So immune cells called microglia cells, these are like these macrophages of the brain, they go to the brain and they elicit this inflammatory response because what your body is trying to do is get more blood to the brain, right?

When you're undergoing this kind of stress response, once you get blood to the heart, the brain and the muscles, everywhere else doesn't need blood at the moment.

So your brain is active and all that, but it's not necessarily a healthy state to be in unless you can come down from it as well as you went into it, right?

So that releasing of the stress response and going back into parasympathetic, that's the key part, right?

So for Lauryn, for example, it might take you longer to get into that stress state, it may take more stimulus to put you there, your adrenal cortex and your HPA axis, so the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, doesn't perceive stressors in the same way that Michael does.

And part of that may be the types of brain waves that you activate, right?

So if you take someone that is a meditation expert and has been doing meditation for years, and they've really accomplished in that, when they encounter a stressor, they tap into something called theta waves.

Theta waves are the low frequency brain waves, right?

And when you're in the low frequency brain waves, there are parts of your brain called the coping centers of the brain that are activated.

They go, yeah, do I really need to be stressed about that?

No, it should be okay.

People who tap into the beta waves, the high frequency brain waves, the stressor becomes much more multiplied, right?

And the difference is like, imagine you're both sitting there right now, you're both pretty calm, right?

And if someone runs into the room and goes, oh my God, there's something going on.

If you can turn to them and look at what that stimulus is in a low frequency brain wave, but you turn to them and look at it in the high frequency brain wave, the stressor is gonna be much more profound for you.

That is exactly our personalities.

And it's funny because, no offense, babe, what do you think I'm gonna say?

You were gonna say that if we were in the Serengeti in a lion chase, I would get away and you'd be fucked.

Yes.

I would just make friends with the lion.

I meditate every day and I rely on it.

I rely on it to manage my stress.

No, but what I do, I mean, like I've learned a lot doing this show and talking to people like yourself for so long that I am able to, I think I am hardwired since birth to maybe have more of a beta brainwave response than a theta.

And so I've, over the years, have had to do a lot to start managing that stress in a much more productive way.

Do you want to be one or the other or does it not matter?

And you don't, do you even have a choice depending on how?

You do, you can adjust it.

So one of the funny things about it is psychobiotics.

So probiotics, I think last time we were on, we talked about it, right?

The calm product.

I love the psychobiotic.

And so it really services you well because one of the things it does is it helps you tap into the low frequency brain wave even better.

Maybe that's why I'm so calm, my psychobiotic.

And you might need to double your dose, right?

So that may be the difference there.

So where you wanna be actually, the healthiest form that you wanna be is when you are productive, you wanna be really dominant in your beta waves and alpha waves, right?

Because that's what makes you productive.

That's what really gives you that diligence and focus.

And then the moment you encounter a stressor or something is negative, you need your brain to go into the low-frequency brainwave so you can handle that better, right?

Or if you do handle it in the high-frequency brainwave, you need to be able to come back to a low-frequency brainwave so you're not in the flight of fight all the time.

And how can he work on that?

Is it through things like breath work and meditation, taking a psychobiotic?

What are the other things he can do that are free?

Yeah, so the meditative work, right?

So having stillness throughout the day.

Stillness throughout the day is really important because if you just sit down and do some deep diaphragmatic breathing or box breathing even, so some sort of practice where you're trying to calm the mind down and you reward yourself by telling yourself that that's a good thing that you're doing, what it tells is it trains your brain to go, hey, stillness and calmness is good.

They do this in neurological training, for example.

There's a type of therapy, for example, if you have a lot of anxiety, you can go and they'll map your brainwaves, right?

And then you wear this cap that measures your brainwave activity and you watch a movie, any movie you like, you can put anything in there.

When I tried this, I was watching The Bourne Identity, for example.

And what happens as you're watching the movie, the movie starts getting pixelated.

You can still hear it and all that, but now you can't see it and your brain's like going, what, I can't, what's happening, right?

And then as your brain goes through many different iterations of trying to figure out the problem, the moment it hits a low frequency brainwave, the picture comes back, right?

And then you do that many times over several days and you start to train the brain that you get rewarded when you go into the low frequency brainwave.

So what you wanna do is reward yourself.

Look, for example, is there something exciting that you like to do?

Like you like to work out, for example, that gives you a good dopamine kick.

Before you allow yourself to go work out, sit down still for 10 to 15 minutes and breathe and tell yourself that your reward for doing that is going to work out, right?

Then your brain goes, oh, okay, this is the reward I get for this activity.

It's a good thing.

Or like say I like to read maybe before I read, I could do the same thing.

Yeah, exactly.

It's funny because when he's like on one, I'm like, go take a sauna and a cold plunge out and he will walk in with a whole different frequency.

Does cold hot therapy give you that same energy that we're talking about?

It does, yeah, it does.

So anytime you go through discomfort or stress the body physically stress the body and you come out of it, you go through this like release of that anxiousness because stepping into cold water or hot sauna automatically puts your body into kind of a fight or flight response, right?

But it's not a prolonged thing because you're removing yourself from the stimulant immediately.

So it's not a psychological stress, it's a physical stress.

So that's closer to what the wildebeest and the Serengeti is experiencing, right?

We're some of the only species that can do psychological stress.

The other ones are baboons.

Baboons are very interesting because they have these really crazy social orders where they spend most of their day tormenting each other.

And they're a very good study for humans.

And in fact, there's some brilliant researchers, neuroscientists that have spent decades studying baboons as a model of human stress because baboons elicit so much psychological stress in one another.

And that's how they determine their hierarchy and their social order.

It's who is ranked above the other and then they torment the people below them.

And it's an interesting study of like human existence and socioeconomic differences and all that stuff.

And the lower rung baboons more often than not get sick and they end up dying off, right?

Are people just born with different frequencies in their brain or is it something that's developed through childhood or trauma?

Like why is his brain one way and mine the other when it comes to these frequencies?

I think it's a mix of how you were born, right?

So the birthing process itself.

So, and everything's from simple from C-section versus vaginal birth.

Was there any trauma in the birthing period, right?

Was it a long arduous labor for your mom or was it an easy labor for your mom?

Those kinds of things can start to map your brainwave activity and also your microbiome.

Your microbiome plays a huge role in how your brainwave activity functions.

And then also were you breastfed, right?

How many course of antibiotics did you have?

And then how did your parents model these behaviors, right?

Were they anxious, moving people all the time, very active, they didn't sit still?

You know, yeah.

Exactly.

And then, you know.

I know, I always blame the mom.

It always blames the mom.

I know.

If the mom gets blamed for everything, it's some bullshit.

Me and my mom joke with each other.

We probably run, like we're pretty similar, her and I.

Yeah.

I would say it is a dig.

Okay, there's something that I see people complaining about all the time, especially women, chronic fatigue.

What's it from?

And what can we do for free to support chronic fatigue?

Yeah.

And then you can give me some ones that maybe aren't free that you think are worth investing in.

There's a couple of mechanisms behind chronic fatigue syndrome.

And they call it syndrome because there's numerous variables in it, right?

To me, probably the most common version of that is what we call like adrenal fatigue.

And that's because your your adrenals, which produce the stress hormones, epinephrine, norepinephrine, cortisol, those adrenals are tired from constant production of those stress hormones, right?

The adrenals are designed to be able to produce these stress hormones in small waves throughout the day to get you going.

This is why a lot of people, when you wake up, or everyone really has a cortisol awakening response, right?

Cortisol is very high during the morning time and very high in the afternoon when we all start to get a little slumpy at two, three o'clock in the afternoon.

Or when Michael flicks the lights on at 7 a.m.
as bright as he possibly can and stomps around.

Exactly.

Your cortisol, the reason why you're not fully alert at that point, your cortisol, your natural cortisol awakening response hasn't kicked in yet, right?

So it's hard to be awake at that point because you don't have that natural wake up call.

Imagine if cortisol and epinephrine or epinephrine are supposed to happen in two or three small waves throughout the day, but they're happening constantly throughout the day, right?

You're constantly in this activated state.

What happens is those glands actually get tired and they can't produce the same level of those hormones, and which means you can't activate your systems, your bodies.

So then you go into adrenal fatigue, which then leads to chronic fatigue syndrome.

So that to me is one of the biggest things, one of the biggest reasons.

So what do you do there?

Well, you have to learn to manage stress.

Stress management, I think, could be one of the biggest things that people do for free, whether it's mindfulness work, disengaging from things, getting all the stimulants away for a short period of time throughout the day, exercise, whatever may reduce stress and cortisol in people.

We were at dinner last night, Tina and your husband, Billy, and we were kind of picking your brain about parenting because you've raised three great kids.

Not to get too personal with you, but when you, for the new parents out there that are thinking about what they should do or what they should incorporate to kind of manage some of this stuff for their kids, and Lauryn and I are asking questions about like, are you born like this or not?

What are some of the things maybe you've done or that you've learned running Just Thrive that you can do as a parent or a new parent?

I think parents do their best, but many are just not equipped and don't know, and there's all sorts of new technology.

The fact of the matter is a lot of this stuff we're talking about just didn't exist when even our parents were raising us.

So I just, I wonder from your perspective, especially with what you know and what you've learned running this company, like what are you actually doing for your kids?

Well, I think a lot of it is just like not taking everything so seriously.

I mean, I think even with grades, as your kids start getting older, what I noticed now that I have, my youngest is a junior in college.

I have three kids that are now two are out of college.

And I just see there was such an emphasis with my firstborn about grades and performing and being the best that you could be.

And I realized it didn't really always serve them that well when I put that much emphasis on it.

And I'm always about even education, about like learning, focus on learning.

Don't focus so much about what your GPA is or are you gonna get into this school or that school?

It's more about doing your best and just being calm about it.

And I've really tried to implement that because I was not doing a great job modeling when we started this business.

Three kids all playing lots of multiple sports and running a business.

And then I really have been very prescriptive now about trying to teach my kids that because I didn't always do a great job of it.

And now my son in college, I mean, my motto is seize, get degrees.

And I mean, that's okay.

I feel fine with it.

Cause I'm always like, you need to learn.

That is my goal is like that you need to learn and not put so much pressure.

I think parents wear a lot of their kids honors, as badges themselves.

And the kids feel that.

And yeah, I feel my, this one example that just comes to mind, my son plays college basketball.

And we had a, this season, Billy and I decided not to say a word to him, not to say like, oh, why didn't you take that shot?

Or, oh, you could be playing better defense.

Or to get a rebound, or you should box out better.

We just said nothing, just we loved watching you play and he had the best season of his career.

Yeah, I think that's a good perspective because I remember as a young kid, stressing a lot about my grades, while also inherently knowing that that academic path, for me personally, was not going to pan out.

I think there's some people that that school system is incredible for, especially for certain roles.

But for me, I knew that it was, like inherently just knew it was not the right path.

And I was so stressed all the time, because I was like, okay, like I am not going to get these grades, Cs, Ds, where my model, I get degrees as well.

But then if you look at how my life has manifested since, like some of that skill set of maybe kind of not being such an academic pan in other ways.

And I think my parents at the time, they're doing their best, but they come from a generation where it was like, GPA, grades, get into the good school.

And so it was probably a lot of maybe unnecessary stress, which in the end, you know, is maybe who I am, but also really like none of those degrees or that traditional schooling like have anything to do with kind of what I'm doing now successfully.

Does that make sense?

Oh, it totally makes sense.

That's what I'm preaching all the time to my kids.

Absolutely.

All kids are different.

Like, meaning, you know, my daughter, she loves to sing and she loves to create.

And like, I'm gonna let her lean into that instead of be like, you have to get A's in math.

If like her thing is being creative, I think it's important to like let them flourish in the area that they're good in, as opposed to being like, you have to do it this way because the school system said this way.

Well, think about like a company even.

There's some people that probably accelerated in things like math and they go into the finance world or have finance roles.

And there's some people that are on the completely other and they go into creative, but imagine trying to put a creative in your finance department.

Right, right.

Imagine if you're running a company, you're like, hey, the person that's like really into the arts and the graphic design.

Could I be a microbiologist?

And that's exactly what we're doing with our kids every single day, yeah.

Something that has come up a lot on this podcast, and I feel like you both are the perfect people to answer, I just did Instagram stories on this, is a lot of people were given antibiotics at birth, meaning their mom was given antibiotics, it ran through their system, and then from there out, they're on a Z-Pak for having a cold, maybe they're a woman and they got a UTI, or a man.

But the point is, is they've been on antibiotics throughout their life, and now they're adults, and they want to reverse the damage that antibiotics has made on their gut.

Where should they start?

Well, the biggest thing is supporting your microbiome on a regular basis by avoiding antibiotics.

Obviously, we know that antibiotics was the cause, but antibiotics are not just found in the capsule, they're found in our animal products that we're eating.

Glyphosate, which is the active ingredient roundup sprayed all over our produce.

We need to try to eat as organic as possible, trying to calm ourselves down, like Kiran mentioned.

I mean, our gut is, our brain is speaking to our gut all the time.

There's a communication going back and forth between the gut and the brain.

So there's a lot of lifestyle changes that we can make to support our gut, as well as taking a spore-based probiotic, which are the type of strains that we work with.

We know we've done double-blind human clinical trials on these strains, knowing that they are sealing up the tight junctions and sealing up that gut lining.

What does spore-based mean?

Spore-based means they have an endospore shell around themselves.

And so these bacteria strains that we work with have this endospore shell around itself, and it allows it to get to the intestines alive.

The problem with the overwhelming majority of probiotics on the market is they don't arrive in the intestines alive.

And just to be defined as a probiotic, it needs to arrive alive in the intestines, and most of them don't even meet that part of the definition.

So the spores have this spore shell around itself, allows it to get through the stomach acid.

The stomach acid, it's meant to be the gastric barrier.

It's very, very, you would burn your finger if you touched the acid in your stomach.

Most probiotics die in that stomach acid.

The spores have the ability to naturally survive and get to the intestines alive.

And then they stay there for about 21 to 28 days where they're working throughout the entire intestinal tract.

What are some other mistakes that you see that are talked about online that's bullshit?

Meaning like, this is just a random question, like is sauerkraut really good for your gut?

Like what are things that, like maybe if you guys could do like a myth busters on what actually is good when it comes to probiotics.

Well, I'll start with my two favorite ones.

One is that a good probiotic needs to be refrigerated.

And that is, it makes no sense when you think about it because if a probiotic needs to be refrigerated, it means it can't even withstand the room temperature of the store shelf.

So if it can't withstand the room temperature of the store shelf, how in the world would it ever survive your body temperature, which is 98.6.

And the answer is it does, they don't.

I mean, we've studied this time and time again, we've done gastric survivability studies on some of the leading probiotics out there with 50 billion CFUs and they're all dying by the time they get to the intestines.

And then the other big myth out there is taking a probiotic with like 10, 15, 25 different strains in the product.

And Kiran famously calls those the kitchen sink formulas because it's like they're throwing in a whole bunch of probiotics strains.

But the problem with those is you don't know what they're doing in the gut because these are live microorganisms and they are put together in a vat and they're grown together.

And so one strain in there could take over another strain.

And then, or worse yet, two strains could come together and create a whole new strain that's never been studied.

We don't know if it's safe, we don't know if it's beneficial, we just don't know.

And this is happening, this is rampant in the industry where you're seeing probiotics with 15 different strains and not a study on the finished formulation.

And that's one of the things we pride ourselves in is that we've actually done a study on the finished formulation with our strains and to know how they work in the body.

And one example of that is our psychobiotic strain that we talked about earlier, Just Calm product.

This psychobiotic strain is Bifidolongum 1714.

There's crazy amount of research behind this, eight clinical trials on showing the great effects it has on reducing cortisol.

When you mix, we decided, oh, let's try to mix that Bifidolongum 1714 with another Bifidolongum strain.

And all of the positive effects of that Bifidolongum 1714 were negated when we mixed it with this other Bifidolongum strain.

So we can't assume that because you have studies from this one strain and then you take studies from another strain, that they're all gonna work together.

You don't know that unless you study it.

And so that's one of the biggest travesties, in my opinion, that's happening in the probiotic industry.

And we're seeing as people are launching probiotics like crazy, because everyone's getting on the gut health bandwagon, but nobody has studies on the finished formulation.

So I'd be careful about getting some of these like kitchen seek formula probiotics.

When you guys launch a product, do you work together to make sure that it's the best of the best?

Absolutely.

I mean, we don't launch products unless they're missing and needed in the market.

And Kiran's brains have been, the brains behind all of our products that we've launched.

Yeah, we put a lot of thought into what mechanisms we need to support in the system, right?

What is missing?

Number one, what should we be doing naturally through non-cost systems?

The meditations, the diets and things like that, exercise and so on.

And then what should we support the body with through supplementation?

Just because we can't get the same resources in the natural world anymore.

So if you think about the brain topic that we're talking about today, why did we create this mood and focus product?

Well, we were very concerned about the brain as a part of the body that we're just not paying enough attention to.

From the perspective of protecting it, supporting it, nurturing it and so on, we do that to almost every other part of our body, right?

Everyone that works out or cares about fitness probably takes protein, probably takes creatine, right?

Takes branching amino acids to support muscle growth, eats enough calories.

They also know that you don't work out the same part of the body twice in a row, right?

Why do we do that?

Well, because we know we need rest and recovery for that part of the body.

We don't work like today because we worked it yesterday.

But the brain is undergoing stressors every single day more so than any other part of the body and we're not providing it the tools to recover throughout the night, right?

So the main important thing is the gut has to be healthy because of the gut brain axis.

If the gut's not healthy, then it's not producing the dopamine, the serotonin, the BDNF and so on that the brain needs to recover.

In addition to that, an unhealthy gut provides so much inflammation to the brain that it causes significant damage to the brain over time.

So we need the gut to be healthy.

That's where the probiotic addresses it and then all the other beneficial things you can do.

On top of that, the reason we created this product is it has nutrients in it that actually improve the reparative function of the central nervous system.

So when you take things like Lion's Mane, for example, or cytokoline, these are compounds that enhance repair in the central nervous system, which is what we need when we go to sleep at night, right?

We need that repair to be happening.

We have compounds in there that increase energy production in brain cells so that your brain is functional.

You have more energy and focus.

You can think about things and work diligently on things without having to use stimulants.

Now, if you have to use stimulants, it's fine.

I use them from time to time as well.

That's perfectly fine.

But the fact that you need it tells you a story that your brain is not necessarily recovering appropriately each day.

So we layer this in.

You fix the gut, then you support the brain through nutrition, through these compounds.

And then of course, you just lifestyle as well.

If I'm just starting, Lauryn and I have been on the gut protocol.

How long has it been now?

A long time.

Four years.

We don't travel without it.

We go everywhere we go.

I sprinkle it in my daughter's smoothie.

My dogs take it.

I literally sprinkled some on the floor for the dogs the other day.

They're licking it up.

I really gotta stress, for people that are interested in gut health and the topics we've covered with these two before, you gotta go back and listen to those episodes.

We go in depth to all the reasons why gut health is important, which we always harp on.

But if I'm gonna start now taking this regularly, what's a protocol that you would say is right for everybody just getting going?

Would you just say, I just had two on the show, do you just take two per day and just go in there?

And you're talking about the focus and memory, which I'm eating right now.

I mean, if you wanna go slow, you can, but there probably wouldn't be a reason necessarily for it.

You could do two a day and it's super easy.

They're gummy, they taste delicious and yeah.

What are the things that you would start to, you would tell people to start looking to notice?

Increase focus.

That's what's great is like, well, you should notice something on this, but then while you're noticing it, you're also doing this reparative, there's this whole reparative aspect that Kiran was talking about that's so exciting.

So some things you won't notice that are happening that are super beneficial.

So increasing in memory, being maybe less brain fog and just not forgetting things all the time and being able to like focus on having a longer attention span.

Well, I take like four of them, Lauryn.

And you may notice your need for certain stimulants reducing, right?

So many people are taking nicotine gum, for example, which can be very effective at increasing focus.

I think it's a perfectly good tool, right?

I think if you have to use it, you have to ask a question, why do I have to use it?

But to get by, if you're using it, it's okay, right?

No judgments there.

I've tried it before.

I don't feel like I need it so much, but I've tried it just to see what it feels like.

And it does definitely give you focus, right?

Maybe you get your perspective on it.

Nicotine, in my opinion, some people are gonna be screaming, has really bad PR.

Because I think it got looped in with cigarettes and tobacco and stuff like that.

But nicotine purely as just nicotine isolated substance in my opinion, can be really beneficial as a tool at times.

And I take it a step further talking about some of these more, I guess, prescription products.

I would rather go to the nicotine than jump to some of the other things we've talked about, adderalls and medications and all of that.

From your, as a scientist.

I would as well.

So nicotine has other added benefits, right?

So nicotine is what they call a mitochondrial uncoupler, which does improve the ability of the mitochondria to produce energy.

That's a good native thing to happen.

It does increase dopamine as well, which is a good thing, right?

But not to the level that an adderall or a prescription drug does.

I think nicotine is a interesting longevity tool for people to use.

But if you find that you need coffee in the morning, nicotine throughout the afternoon, all that, just to function, then you have to start thinking about what are some of the underlying mechanisms I'm not addressing, which is causing me to need these so much.

Yeah, I would say the same.

Like if you find yourself also drinking three cups of coffee followed by a tea and a matcha and all.

Like there's, you know, I think all of the, any substance can be abused if not used in moderation.

And if you're needing these things to get you through normal human function throughout the day, like there's probably an underlying issue.

That you should address.

What's your prescription for hangovers?

Like if you're gonna be hungover tomorrow, tell me exactly what you're gonna do when you wake up.

Tell me what supplements you're taking, what kind of water you're drinking, what you're doing.

Yep, so step one is how do I reduce my risk of getting hungover, right?

So then you have to be very specific about what you drink.

I like really high-end spirits and I drink them straight without mixers in it.

Because I think if you're starting to add sugary mixers and all that, that increases your risk for being hungover.

So for example, high-end tequila, whiskeys and all that.

And for me, it's easier to manage the amount that I end up drinking if I'm drinking it that way.

Number two is hydration while drinking.

So there've been some studies that show that one of the biggest factors in whether or not you experience a hangover and how much you can tolerate of alcohol is the amount of hydration you have in your body at that time.

We always had this idea that a small person can't handle as much alcohol as a large person.

They're like, oh, he's 300 pounds, he can drink more.

That's not actually true necessarily.

It's about how much water they hold in their system.

So I hydrate a lot when I'm drinking at night.

So then the next day I have less of a hangover.

And I will say, I almost never get hangovers.

I don't think I ever have, even throughout college.

There may be one time I can remember because we were on a cruise ship and that seasickness probably didn't help it.

But so then the next morning, one of the things I do is the night before hydration and I try to drink clean spirits and I take liver support.

So I take milk thistle and then I hit my probiotic during the drinking period as well so that my gut is aligned properly.

When I wake up in the morning, it's a lot of water, it's coffee, and it's liver support.

I forgot about milk thistle.

I took a bunch of that in college.

I basically had crates of milk thistle.

And it's so effective.

It can be so effective.

And then if you do some B vitamins, so for example, I'll take, you know, there's an energy drink packet that I use called Celsius, right?

The one with stevia in it.

I don't like the other one.

I'll drink that in the morning as well.

It gives you some B vitamins, a little bit of caffeine and things like that just to keep me going.

And then a nice hot shower to kind of sweat it out a little bit.

And I typically feel perfectly fine.

The other thing that helps me a lot with reducing the risk of hangover is eating actually.

Now, this is not great for you.

I'm not advocating eating late at night, right?

But if you've been drinking, I always like to eat something before bed.

And it may be just a banana sandwich or something like that, right?

That seems to help me feel much better the next morning as well.

If our audience was to start with one of your products and you could wave a wand and give everyone one product, which would it be?

It would be our Just Thrive Probiotic for sure.

That's what I think so too.

It's so foundational to everything we've talked about.

So many of our audience already have the Just Thrive Probiotic.

And I selfishly want to know what maybe the second product is.

I'm gonna guess you're gonna say focus in memory.

Well, I think it depends on what your goals are.

If you're someone who's super stressed out, you can't get your cortisol levels down.

You're just constantly stressed out.

Maybe that one's for me.

Yeah, right.

That's for Michael, exactly.

I would do the Just Calm product, which is the psychobiotic we were talking about.

But if you're looking for some real laser sharp focus and being able to concentrate and have a longer attention span and protecting your brain cells, then I would go with the focus in memory product.

But you could take all three of them and they're not gonna counteract or imbalance them, right?

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, they work beautifully together.

The idea is layering on one another.

The gut probiotic affects the foundational issue, right?

And then the psychobiotic, if you have stress and anxiety, actually modulates neurological response.

So if your neurons are too inflamed and fired up because of a lot of anxiety and a lot of sympathetic activity, the calm helps that.

And then almost everybody needs a focus in memory product.

One that's formulated like this, that is nurturing to the brain, right?

That's the idea is it's not stimulating to the brain, it's nurturing to the brain.

That's what we need.

What can we do for our kids with your products?

What are some little tips and tricks and how would you implement this if we have kids under five?

Yeah, well, for the probiotic, like you mentioned, you could sprinkle them and mix them with food.

You could bake with them.

We've tested them up to 455 degrees and they remain completely stable.

And if your child needs to be on an antibiotic, these also remain stable in the presence of an antibiotic, which is a key point.

But I would just sprinkle them and they won't even know that they're there because they're tasteless, colorless or odorless.

Don't even think about going on an antibiotic without a probiotic, by the way.

That is called yeastinfection.com.

Sorry, Michael, plug your ears.

Don't ever even think about taking a probiotic.

Man, woman, if you have kids on an antibiotic, and please tell me if I'm wrong, this is my own theory, you have to balance it with a probiotic.

You really do.

So here's what happens when you take an antibiotic.

So people understand.

An antibiotic, most broad spectrum antibiotics are like an atom bomb for your gut.

In fact, there was a study out of Yale that showed that you've got trillions of organisms in your gut, right?

Represented by maybe say 150, 200 different species of bacteria, but trillions of organisms.

You take an antibiotic, broad spectrum antibiotic, within the first three hours, you knock down like 98% of all of them, right?

You start having small representations of each species still left, but you knock down the vast majority of the microbes.

So you go from a system that is teeming with microbes, microbes are nearly sterile in that view.

And then what happens is, good thing for us, bacteria bounce back very quickly, right?

So then after about three and a half hours, the antibiotic's gone out of the gut, it's now in the liver and gone to the rest of the body.

Now the microbes start to come back.

The problem is the ecosystem is now different, because prior to the antibiotic, you had a lot of good microbes producing lactic acid.

So it's an acidic environment.

That controls who comes back and why the yeast come back fast.

In the case of antibiotics, is yeast don't do well in an acidic environment.

So part of the way the bacteria control the yeast is by producing lactic acid and keeping the environment acidic.

Now imagine all those lactic acid bacteria are knocked down.

Now you have no acid, the pH is going up, the yeast go, hey, this is my time to come back.

They come back faster than the bacteria.

So every dose of the antibiotic you take keeps skewing what that ecosystem looks like and who gets to win at the end of that.

Now if you take a probiotic that functions in the presence of the antibiotic, what happens is that probiotic produces lactic acid for you and that probiotic prevents the growth of certain dysfunctional bacteria as they're trying to come back.

They stifle their growth and allows your microbiome to look more like how you started when you had the, before you had the antibiotic.

So even if you're on the fence about should I do a probiotic, which you shouldn't, you should always do a probiotic, but if you're on the fence and you're going to take an antibiotic whether you have a surgery, you got secretive, you should definitely then.

Absolutely.

That's one time that it should be, no questions.

You know, I mean, they're even doing this in hospitals now.

Hospitals are so far behind on most modern medicine and research.

Even in hospitals, they'll give you at the least a yogurt.

If you're on antibiotics and you're admitted in the hospital, they give you a yogurt because of the antibiotic use.

I take my probiotic in the morning with hot lemon water.

Is that approved?

It is.

It's good to take it with some food though.

If that does well for your body, then I would say your next meal, if you're not eating anything at that time, the meal, you should take some with your meal as well.

I take it at lunch.

Yeah, that's perfect.

It works better in the presence of food.

We've actually studied that.

I'll have a sausage link tomorrow.

I can't eat too much.

Just like one sausage link.

With my coffee.

I am on subscription with you guys because I think that it's most efficient because it just gets delivered straight to my door.

There is a subscription offer on your site.

We also got a code from you guys.

So for a limited time, try Focus and Memory, which are the gummies that we've been eating here or any other Just Thrive products, probiotics, you guys, you can't go wrong with psychobiotics.

And you get 20% off your order.

So everyone can go to justthrivehealth.com and use code skinny.

And can we do a giveaway?

Yeah, definitely.

And I also wanted to mention that we don't have the Focus and Memory on Amazon right now because last time we launched Just Calm or other brain health supplement, we sold out immediately.

And so we wanted to make sure that we kept it on our website.

So it's not available on Amazon for those.

And plus you get the coupon code using the code skinny on our site at justthrivehealth.com.

We'll do a big cute basket of a bunch of Just Thrive products.

I'm such a fan because you guys bring the education and the value and the integrity of the brand.

We're gonna do a big, big basket to one winner.

All you have to do is follow at Just Thrive Health on Instagram and tell us your favorite takeaway.

There's a lot from this episode on my latest post at Lauryn Bosstick.

Where can everyone find you guys?

Where can we stock Just Thrive?

Tell us all the things.
justthrivehealth.com and on Instagram, Just Thrive Health.

Amazing.

We could talk to you guys for hours, but we gotta get you on a flight.

That's right.

Thank you guys so much.

Oh my God, Michael's cortisol on a flight.

I'm in a fucking main line here with just pomp.

I have stress.

I am going to literally IV.

No, when you told me your flight, I have stress for you for the flight time.

Give him a suppository.

I will carry the stress until I know you're safely on the flight.

Thank you guys.

Bye guys.